The Marcel Podcast

This episode is brought to you by Smarsh. AI is transforming how businesses communicate, and compliance can’t fall behind. Smarsh is helping global organizations build defensible, future-ready compliance programs powered by AI. To learn more, visit smarsh.com or download their 2026 AI Insights Report.
 
Episode recap:
In this episode, Marcel sits down with Andy Crocker—a former rocket scientist and author of The Unconditionals: Five Timeless Values to Live Without Limits and Ignite Your Superpower—to unpack the five core values that shaped both his leadership philosophy and personal transformation. Drawing from a pivotal career setback and personal reflection, Andy explains how practicing these values without conditions can reduce stress, strengthen relationships, and help leaders show up more authentically, even in high-performance, technical environments.
 
BIO:
 
Andy Crocker is an aerospace executive with three decades of experience building high-performance teams and leading ambitious projects, including NASA’s Human Landing System. He holds degrees in engineering, humanities, management, and leadership and is an Associate Fellow of the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics. His multidisciplinary background and diverse career shaped his unique perspective that led to his new book, The Unconditionals.
 
Quotes 
 
“You don’t discover who you are when everything works out—you discover it when the moonshot fails and you choose your values anyway.” 
“Unconditional love doesn’t mean staying in a toxic place; it means caring for yourself and others enough to walk away when you must.” 
“When you stop negotiating your behavior with circumstances, your values finally become who you are—not just what you believe.” 
“Gratitude is not thanks for the tragedy; it’s thanks for what the tragedy cannot take away—the love, the lessons, and the strength you carry forward.” 
“The most advanced systems on earth still run on human hearts; love and gratitude are not soft skills—they’re the core operating code of real performance.” 
 
 
Takeaways 
 
Your identity can’t be safely built on achievements. Andy’s lost “moonshot” with NASA forced him to separate who he is from what he does—and that shift is what unlocked deeper purpose and peace. 
Values only transform you when they’re unconditional. Love, gratitude, integrity, accountability, and endeavor matter most when they don’t change based on who you’re dealing with or whether you’re winning or losing. 
Unconditional love requires boundaries, not self‑sacrifice. Truly loving others starts with self‑respect and the courage to leave toxic situations—for your good and, often, for theirs. 
Gratitude is a discipline for surviving hard things. Andy’s response to his mother’s sudden death shows that gratitude isn’t about approving the pain; it’s about honoring what can’t be taken away and finding steadiness in the middle of loss. 
“Soft” values are the hard edge of performance. Even in hyper‑technical, left‑brain environments like aerospace, cultures of love, appreciation, and integrity create the psychological safety, motivation, and resilience that high performance actually depends on. 
 
Timestamps 
 
00:00:03 – Introduction and Andy’s rocket-scientist background 
00:03:07 – Andy’s story: career, NASA moon mission, and heartbreak 
00:08:54 – Why he wrote The Unconditionals for his kids 
00:09:17 – Overview of the five unconditionals 
00:13:34 – What unconditional love is (and what it isn’t) 
00:17:59 – Why love matters in organizations and leadership 
00:20:59 – Love in technical, engineering, and “left‑brain” cultures 
00:25:43 – Unconditional gratitude and losing his mother 
00:31:12 – Unconditional accountability and real ownership 
00:38:06 – How engineering shaped Andy’s leadership philosophy 
00:41:45 – Speed round: life, careers, and hopes for the future 
00:43:40 – How to lead with practical love every day 
00:45:32 – Final takeaway: living your values unconditionally 
 
Conclusion 
 
Love, gratitude, integrity, accountability, and endeavor aren’t abstract ideals—they’re the unconditional choices that define who you are when the dream falls apart, the contract is lost, or life doesn’t go your way. Andy Crocker’s journey from leading a moonshot bid for NASA to grieving its loss—and then writing The Unconditionals for his children—shows that real strength is refusing to let circumstances dictate your character. When you stop tying your worth to titles and outcomes, and instead anchor yourself in values that don’t move when the world does, you gain the freedom to lead, work, and live with clarity, courage, and compassion. This episode is an invitation to decide: Will you keep living conditionally—reacting to success and failure—or will you commit to becoming the kind of person whose values hold steady, no matter what happens next? 
 
Links/Resources 
 
Website and Book: https://andycrockerbooks.com/  
Andy Crocker on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andycrocker/

This episode is brought to you by Smarsh. AI is transforming how businesses communicate, and compliance can’t fall behind. Smarsh is helping global organizations build defensible, future-ready compliance programs powered by AI. To learn more, visit smarsh.com or download their 2026 AI Insights Report. 
 
Episode recap 
 
In this episode of the Love in Action podcast, Marcel interviews Dr. Lilian Ajayi Ore, co-author of The Power of the Learning Mindset with Dr. Marshall Goldsmith, exploring how leaders can stay relevant and effective in a rapidly changing, post-AI world. Dr. Ajayi-Ore shares her journey from the United Nations to academia and executive coaching, and introduces a practical framework built on three pillars—learning prowess, leadership prowess, and coaching prowess—designed to help leaders develop a “win mindset.”
 
Bio
 
Dr. Lilian Ajayi Ore is the founder and CEO of Global Connections for Women  Foundation. An award-winning Chief Learning Officer, research scholar, and part of the Lead Faculty at Columbia University, she has over 17 years of experience working with Fortune 100/500 companies. A member of Marshall Goldsmith's 100 Executive Coaches, she mentors top professionals in uncovering their career paths.
 
Quotes: 
 
“Leadership rooted in love creates spaces where people don’t just perform—they belong.” 
“When people feel seen and valued, everything changes—engagement, trust, and results.” 
“Leadership today isn’t about having answers—it’s about staying curious enough to keep learning.” 
 
Takeaways: 
 
Leadership becomes transformational when it moves beyond authority and centers on genuine care for people. 
Creating a culture of belonging starts with leaders who intentionally practice empathy and connection. 
Love in leadership is not passive—it requires courage, consistency, and daily action. 
Impactful leadership is measured not just by outcomes, but by how people feel and grow under your influence. 
Sustainable success comes from aligning business goals with human values. 
 
Timestamps: 
 
[00:00] Introduction and episode overview 
[02:30] Welcoming the guest and setting the context 
[04:00] Guest background and personal journey 
[07:00] Defining the core topic or problem 
[10:30] Key challenges and common misconceptions 
[14:00] Deep dive into main concept or framework 
[18:00] Practical examples and real-life applications 
[22:00] Obstacles, resistance, and lessons learned 
[26:00] Leadership insights and mindset shifts 
[30:00] Personal stories and turning points 
[34:00] Broader impact on culture, business, or life 
[38:00] Addressing audience questions or key concerns 
[42:00] Actionable strategies and daily practices 
[46:00] Final insights and key takeaways 
[49:00] Future outlook or upcoming projects 
[51:00] Where to connect and learn more 
[52:30] Closing remarks and call to action 
 
Conclusion: 
 
This episode reinforces a simple but powerful truth: love is not a weakness in leadership—it’s the greatest strength. When leaders choose to act with empathy, intention, and authenticity, they create environments where people thrive and businesses flourish. As Marcel reminds us, love in action is the future of leadership. The question is—will you live it out daily? 
 
Links/Resources:  Lilian’s website: https://www.lilianore.com/  
Lilian on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lilianore  
The Power of the Learning Mindset  

This episode is brought to you by Mitel. If you’re thinking about how communication impacts leadership and resilience in your own organization, Mitel works with more than 70 million users worldwide across critical industries to keep teams secure and connected. You can check them out at Mitel.com. 
 
BIO:
 
Mike Robinson is a telecom and infrastructure veteran with extensive operating experience both as a CEO and CFO, leading business transformations across organic growth initiatives, mergers, acquisitions, and restructurings. He has held numerous leadership roles and served on the boards of technology and telecommunications companies. Mike joined Mitel’s Board of Directors in 2025 and shortly thereafter stepped into the role of CEO. With a strong focus on leadership, team building, effective communication, operational efficiency, and transparency, Mike and his leadership team guide Mitel with a collaborative, results-driven approach; aligning people, strategy, and purpose to drive impactful outcomes for customers and employees. 
 
Quotes: 
Leadership works best when people know they matter for more than a paycheck. 
Culture becomes unstoppable when employees go home and tell a neighbor they genuinely like where they work. 
The best strategy fails without the earned right to execute through trusted people and clear communication. 
Customer loyalty is priceless because loyal customers will fight to keep you and look for new ways to grow with you. 
Caring is not a side project; it is the operating system that drives top line, bottom line, and long-term relevance. 
Takeaways: 
Trust is built fastest through presence, transparency, and listening to employees, customers, and partners before making big moves. 
Avoiding command and control leadership requires confidence in your people, a healthy capital runway, and data-driven, fair decision-making. 
A strong culture is less about perks and more about belonging, recognition, development, and being heard. 
Sustaining industry leadership demands relentless innovation, disciplined focus, and making it easy for others to do business with you. 
Caring consistently, through small daily actions and genuine relationships, creates the discretionary effort that drives exceptional results. 
Timestamps: 
[00:00] Introduction and Overview of Mitel 
[05:27] Mike Robinson’s Background and Leadership Philosophy 
[08:09] Building Trust and Culture at Mitel 
[20:57] The Role of Culture in Business Outcomes 
[27:20] Sustaining Success and Innovation at Mitel 
[33:14] Personal Leadership Qualities and Practices 
[36:41] Leading with Love in Action 
[39:03] Final Thoughts and Takeaways 
 
Conclusion: 
At the heart of this episode is a simple but radical idea: caring is a business strategy. Mike Robinson shows that when leaders are present, transparent, and genuinely human, people do not just comply, they commit. We see how culture, when rooted in trust and love in action, becomes the engine of innovation, loyalty, and long-term growth. If you want better numbers, you do not start with spreadsheets; you start with how people feel when they walk through the door. Listen in, take notes, and then go lead in a way that proves, inside your own company, that love really does win. 
 
Links/Resources: 
Mitel - www.Mitel.com   
Mitel on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/company/mitel/   
Mike Robinson on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelkrobinson/ 

This episode is brought to you by Smarsh. AI is transforming how businesses communicate, and compliance can’t fall behind. Smarsh is helping global organizations build defensible, future-ready compliance programs powered by AI. To learn more, visit smarsh.com or download their 2026 AI Insights Report. 
 
Episode recap 
 
Kim Crawford Goodman, CEO of Smarsh, shares her journey from growing up in Chicago during the Civil Rights Movement to leading a global technology company focused on preserving and protecting truth in digital communications. She explains Smarsh’s role in helping highly regulated industries manage and analyze communications across channels using AI-powered tools, and highlights the company’s commitment to accountability, innovation, and customer focus. Kim also reflects on leadership lessons around balancing technology with human connection, navigating change with transparency, and building inclusive teams grounded in integrity.
 
Bio:
 
Kim Crawford Goodman is Chief Executive Officer of Smarsh. Under her leadership, Smarsh has strengthened its position as a global leader in AI-powered communications intelligence, helping highly regulated organizations manage risk, modernize compliance, and unlock the value of communications data. With more than 25 years of experience, Goodman is known for leading with empathy and integrity to scale businesses and build high-performing global teams.
 
Quotes: 
"Smarsh, first and foremost, preserves and protects the truth in a world where what is truthful is getting more elusive." 
"We can't forget the human element. You can't let anything stand in the way of actually knowing your team, because that's what makes every other electronic interaction more efficient and more meaningful." 
"As a leader, you're always balancing the need to innovate and move with the need to give consistency and stability to your people, and the way you hold that balance is through transparency and context." 
Takeaways: 
Trust is built fastest through presence, transparency, and listening to employees, customers, and partners before making big moves. 
Avoiding command and control leadership requires confidence in your people, a healthy capital runway, and data-driven, fair decision-making. 
A strong culture is less about perks and more about belonging, recognition, development, and being heard. 
Sustaining industry leadership demands relentless innovation, disciplined focus, and making it easy for others to do business with you. 
Caring consistently, through small daily actions and genuine relationships, creates the discretionary effort that drives exceptional results. 
Timestamps: 
[00:00:00] AI, Risk, and the Mission to Govern Conversations 
[00:04:44] From South Side Chicago to Global CEO 
[00:05:47] Smarsh’s Mission: Preserving and Protecting the Truth 
[00:09:30] Inside Smarsh: AI Agents, Noise Reduction, and E‑Discovery 
[00:16:25] Leading Culture in a World of Slacks, Texts, and AI 
[00:19:31] Staying Obsessed with the Customer in a Noisy World 
[00:24:25] Transparency, Psychological Safety, and Real Talk on Change 
[00:25:07] Hitting Walls: Perseverance, Identity, and Non‑Linear Careers 
[00:27:58] Integrity, Inclusion, and Building Diverse Teams That Win 
[00:33:55] Know Yourself: Authentic Leadership from Campus to C‑Suite 
[00:36:56] Unfiltered Advice for Women of Color Who Want to Lead 
[00:36:56] Leading with Love: Know Your People, Know Yourself 
[00:38:01] As Much as Things Change, Some Things Stay the Same 
[00:39:23] Where to Find Kim and Final Love in Action Sign‑Off 
 
Conclusion: 
In a world where AI is accelerating every interaction, Kim Crawford Goodman reminds us that leadership still rises and falls on integrity. Her story shows that preserving truth in business isn’t just a technical challenge; it’s a moral and cultural one, lived out in daily decisions, not slogans. Through Smarsh, she demonstrates how AI can be harnessed to govern communication, reduce risk, and build confidence instead of chaos. Through her personal journey, she models how perseverance, self‑knowledge, and genuine care for people can carry leaders through disruption and disappointment. If you’re serious about leading in the age of AI, this episode will challenge you to build a culture where innovation moves fast—but truth, accountability, and love move faster. 
 
Links/Resources: 
Smarsh - https://www.smarsh.com/  
Kim Crawford in LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/kim-crawford-goodman-69703187/  
Smarsh 2026 AI Insights Report – https://www.smarsh.com/reports/2026-compliance-horizon-insights-report  
Substack: https://marcelschwantes.substack.com/      
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcelschwantes/  
Twitter/X: https://x.com/MarcelSchwantes  
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9fO2r_ZQ3wy5ie522f-DTQ  
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marcel.schwantes/

Episode recap:
 
Marcel sat down with Margaret C. Andrews to discuss her book "Manage Yourself to Lead Others: Why Great Leadership Begins with Self-Understanding." Margaret discussed leadership derailment and self-awareness, emphasizing that the factors that got leaders to their current positions may not be sufficient for future success. She shared six key questions to help leaders understand themselves and highlighted the importance of self-management, noting that many leadership training programs focus more on technical skills than interpersonal skills.
 
Bio:
 
Margaret C. Andrews is a seasoned executive, academic leader, speaker, and instructor. She teaches leadership courses and professional and executive programs at Harvard University and is the founder of the MYLO Center, a private leadership development firm. 
 
Quotes: 
We judge ourselves by our intentions, but other people judge us by our behaviors. 
Leadership emerges from your life story and your unique portfolio of experiences, not from a checklist of best practices. 
What got you here won’t get you there, especially when you move from individual contributor to leading others. 
People do not care how much you know until they know how much you care about them as human beings. 
We are all a work in progress, continually riding new learning curves as we grow into the leaders we want to become. 
 
Takeaways: 
Self-understanding is the foundation of effective leadership, and without it, all the standard tips and tactics remain shallow. 
Career derailment often happens right after a promotion when leaders fail to realize that their new role requires different behaviors, not just more effort. 
High achievers commonly struggle with interpersonal relationships, team-building, and adaptability, which can ultimately sabotage their success. 
Asking deep questions about who shaped you, what you value, and how your behavior impacts others is essential to building self-awareness. 
Leading with love and care means treating people as human beings, not resources, and consistently managing your own behavior to match your best intentions. 
 
Timestamps: 
0:00 – Welcome, episode setup, and introduction of Margaret C. Andrews 
2:59 – Margaret’s origin story and wake-up call about self-awareness 
7:20 – How lack of self-awareness derails high achievers and careers 
17:39 – Six foundational questions for self-understanding and self-management 
25:39 – Roadblocks, vulnerability, and why leadership training must go deeper 
28:24 – The MYLO process and what it means to lead with love in action 
31:32 – Final lessons, being a work in progress, and where to find Margaret 
 
Conclusion: 
Today’s conversation showed that great leadership doesn’t begin with a job title or a promotion. It begins with you, with understanding your own story, your values, and even your blind spots. Margaret reminded us that we are all a work in progress, learning and growing as we practice new behaviors and step into the leaders we want to become. The challenge is simple to say but hard to live out: get honest about who you are, manage yourself with intention, and notice how your relationships and results start to shift.  
 
Links/Resources: 
Book on Amazon: https://a.co/d/0gzLmPl2  
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaretcandrews/    
Website: https://www.margaretandrews.com/  
Substack: https://marcelschwantes.substack.com/      
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcelschwantes/  
Twitter/X: https://x.com/MarcelSchwantes  
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9fO2r_ZQ3wy5ie522f-DTQ  
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marcel.schwantes/  

Episode recap
In this powerful conversation, Marcel sits down with Joshua Freedman, a global leader in emotional intelligence and the CEO of Six Seconds, to explore the ideas behind his new book, Emotion Rules. Drawing from 30 years of research and more than a million emotional intelligence assessments, Joshua shares why he believes we are living through an “emotional recession” and what leaders must do about it. 
 
Joshua discusses how many leaders struggle with old patterns that no longer serve them, especially when moving from being a high-performing doer to a leader who must grow others. Marcel highlights two major shifts leaders must make: from knowing to learning, and from doing to being. The episode closes with a fast-paced speed round and reflections on what it truly means to lead with practical, actionable love in business.
 
Bio:
Joshua Freedman is CEO and cofounder of Six Seconds, the world’s largest  emotional intelligence network. A pioneer in applying EQ to business and social impact, he directs The State of the Heart  study, a landmark longitudinal analysis tracking global trends in emotional intelligence, which first identified the  “Emotional Recession” – a sustained worldwide decline in emotional and relational capacities affecting wellbeing, engagement, and organizational resilience. His frameworks and tools are used by over a million people in 150+ countries, delivering measurable improvements in performance and culture.
 
Quotes 
 “There are no negative feelings. They’re all data.” 
 “Emotions are great advisors but horrible bosses.” 
 “Your feelings are here for a reason—your next step is to learn to trust them more.” 
 “Maybe the struggle isn’t the obstacle; maybe the struggle is the curriculum.” 
 “We must shift from knowing to learning, and from doing to being.” 
 
 
Takeaways 
Emotional wisdom goes beyond emotional intelligence—it’s the ability to use emotional signals to navigate ambiguity when there is no clear path or precedent. 
We are in a global “emotional recession” where optimism, intrinsic motivation, and purpose are declining, yet higher EQ in these areas is strongly linked to better life and work outcomes. 
All emotions are information, not problems; even uncomfortable feelings like fear or anxiety are messages about important needs and values that require attention. 
Leaders often get stuck in old emotional patterns—like over‑controlling or withdrawing—that once helped them succeed but now block trust, growth, and empowerment in their teams. 
Simple practices—such as choosing who you want to be each day and adopting a coach‑like, question‑driven approach—can transform leadership from transactional control to human‑centered connection and learning. 
 
Timestamps 
00:00:02 – Introduction & Joshua’s Background 
00:04:11 – The Emotional Recession 
00:07:42 – Emotional Intelligence vs. Emotional Wisdom 
00:15:11 – Decline in Key EQ Capabilities 
00:18:14 – Fighting Our Emotions 
00:23:40 – Emotions as Data & Needs 
00:31:04 – Emotions as Advisors, Not Bosses 
00:34:24 – Patterns That Keep Leaders Stuck 
00:43:03 – The To‑Be List Practice 
00:46:22 – Wisdom Lives Within 
00:52:39 – Leading with Love 
00:54:39 – Final Takeaway 
 
 
Conclusion 
This episode ultimately makes the case that emotional wisdom is not about perfection or sentimentality, but about honestly listening to what our feelings are telling us so we can build more humane, resilient, and high‑performing lives and workplaces; when leaders stop fighting emotions, treat them as data, and model curiosity and courage, they unlock deeper engagement, stronger cultures, and a more sustainable way to navigate a chaotic world. 
 
 
Links/Resources 
Emotion Rules book: https://www.6seconds.org/emotionrules/
Six Seconds - https://www.6seconds.org/
Emotional Wisdom Wheel (Constellation Map): https://www.6seconds.org/emotionrules/wheel/
Episode #191 with Joshua Freedman: https://www.marcelschwantes.com/josh-freedman-emotional-intelligence-and-how-to-use-it-to-get-results-ep-191/
 
Social Media Links: 
https://www.linkedin.com/company/six-seconds/
https://www.instagram.com/6secondseq/ 
https://www.facebook.com/sixseconds/
 
Substack: https://marcelschwantes.substack.com/       
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcelschwantes/   
Twitter/X: https://x.com/MarcelSchwantes   
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9fO2r_ZQ3wy5ie522f-DTQ   
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marcel.schwantes/   
 

Episode recap
 
Don’t forget Marcel’s special offer to join his Substack community for $8.00/month. Subscribe here: https://marcelschwantes.substack.com/subscribe 
 
In this solo episode, Marcel Schwantes discussed the impact of fear in the workplace, explaining how it stifles creativity, innovation, and collaboration. He highlighted that fear-based environments lead to disengagement, turnover, and low morale, while human-centered leadership fosters psychological safety and trust. Marcel emphasized the importance of leaders addressing their blind spots and modifying behaviors to create a positive workplace culture. He stressed that hiring and developing leaders based on technical competence alone is insufficient, urging a focus on humanity and human-centered attributes. Marcel encouraged listeners to subscribe to his Substack for further insights on effective human-centered leadership.
 
Bio:
 
Marcel Schwantes is a leadership coach, speaker, author, and advocate for more humane workplaces. He partners with organizations tired of burnout, disengagement, and hollow cultures — and ready to build something better. 
 
Marcel’s work includes: 
Executive coaching 
Leadership development programs for managers 
Keynote speaking and workshops 
Executive roundtables and culture strategy sessions 
 
Marcel is the author of Humane Leadership: Lead with Radical Love, Be a Kick-Ass Boss. Whether coaching a CEO or training a leadership team, Marcel’s #1 goal is the same: To help leaders become the kind of people others want to follow. 
 
Episode Timeline:
[00:03] Introduction: Why fear remains a workplace epidemic[00:19] How fear kills creativity, collaboration, and profitability [01:06] Silence in meetings: The hidden cost of fear [01:58] Why fear stops innovation and risk-taking [02:34] Fear shrinks organizations from the inside out [03:51] Psychological safety and team performance (Harvard research) [04:26] Why leaders still dismiss “soft skills” [05:13] The cost of waiting for marching orders [05:49] Burnout, turnover, and quiet disengagement [06:03] What human-centered leadership looks like [07:10] Surfacing problems early vs. kicking the can down the road [08:10] Shared accountability and self-correcting teams [09:40] Leadership blind spots and fear-driven management [10:29] Burnout as the final warning sign [11:30] Why technical skills alone no longer qualify someone to lead [12:04] Raising human leadership capacity in the AI era [12:31] Closing thoughts and call to action 
 
Quotes:
“If you want to know why creativity dies, why collaboration stalls, why your most talented people are quietly quitting — look for one thing: fear.” 
“When fear is prevalent, people protect themselves instead of serving the mission.” 
“You cannot afford to choose leaders based only on technical competence or individual performance. Those days are over.” 
 
Key Takeaways:
Fear Is Expensive - Fear doesn’t just hurt feelings — it damages profitability, innovation, and long-term growth.
Silence Is a Warning Sign - if meetings are full of nodding heads but no pushback, fear may be driving compliance instead of commitment.
Psychological Safety Drives Performance - When employees feel safe to speak up, admit mistakes, and challenge ideas, performance and productivity increase.
Human-Centered Leadership Solves Problems Early - Empowered teams raise concerns quickly, solve issues on the spot, and share accountability across levels.
Leadership Blind Spots Create Fear - Many fear-based environments stem from leaders who fear losing control or respect. Coaching and self-awareness are critical.
Technical Skills Aren’t Enough Anymore - In the age of AI and automation, the differentiator is human leadership capacity — the ability to help people flourish. 
 
Conclusion:
Fear quietly shrinks organizations from the inside out. It limits creativity, slows innovation, and pushes good people toward burnout and disengagement.  Marcel’s message is clear: if you care about performance, profitability, and long-term growth, you must care about human-centered leadership. The future of leadership isn’t louder authority or tighter control — it’s building environments where people feel safe enough to contribute their best thinking. 
The question every leader must ask: 
Am I creating safety — or am I creating fear? 
Because that answer determines everything. 
 
Resources: 
The book: https://www.amazon.com/Humane-Leadership-Lead-Radical-Kick-Ass-ebook/dp/B0CWG3PTL4/ 
Substack: https://marcelschwantes.substack.com/ 
LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/marcelschwantes/   
X: https://x.com/MarcelSchwantes 
YouTube: https://youtube.com/@MarcelSchwantes1 
Instagram: https://instagram.com/marcel.schwantes/ 
Dr. James Doty Episode: https://www.marcelschwantes.com/dr-james-doty-the-neuroscience-of-manifestation/ 
  

Episode recap  
 
Don’t forget Marcel’s special offer to join his Substack community for $8.00/month. Subscribe here: https://marcelschwantes.substack.com/subscribe 
 
In this solo episode, Marcel argued that compassion is a core leadership strength, not a soft extra, and that alleviating others’ pain and suffering is a leader’s real work. Through examples like Jeff Weiner and Phil Lynch during 9/11, he showed how leaders who prioritize people, communicate openly, and make space for emotion build stronger, more connected organizations. When leaders show up in hard moments, teams heal faster and perform better.
 
Bio
Marcel Schwantes is a leadership coach, speaker, author, and advocate for more humane workplaces. He works with organizations that are tired of burnout, disengagement, and hollow cultures — and ready to build something better. 
Marcel’s work includes: 
Executive coaching 
Leadership development programs for managers 
Keynote speaking and workshops 
Executive roundtables and culture strategy sessions 
 
Marcel is the author of Humane Leadership: Lead with Radical Love, Be a Kick-Ass Boss. Whether coaching a CEO or training a leadership team, Marcel’s #1 goal is the same: To help leaders become the kind of people others want to follow. 
 
Timestamps 
[00:03] Why “soft skills” like compassion are actually essential leadership skills 
[01:05] Command-and-control vs. compassion: why old leadership models fail 
[02:00] Jeff Weiner on compassion as a lifelong practice, not a buzzword 
[02:52] Dr. James Doty’s definition of compassion and the science behind it 
[03:45] What compassionate leadership looks like in practice 
[04:32] 9/11 and Reuters: setting the scene for Phil Lynch’s defining moment 
[05:25] “People first, then customers, then the business” — a new priority in crisis 
[06:20] Keeping people informed, safe, and emotionally supported 
[07:15] Making space for grief, fear, and honest emotions at work 
[08:10] How compassion shaped Reuters’ culture and rippled to customers 
[08:30] Final reflection: Are you willing to be present with people when they’re suffering 
 
Key Quotes 
“If you want to measure yourself against the highest standard of leadership, you have to measure yourself against what people call the ‘soft stuff’—because it’s actually the hardest to master.”
“Compassion is not weakness. Some of the strongest people I know are the most compassionate.”
“Compassion is recognizing someone’s suffering—and then doing what you can to help ease it. It’s not hippy-dippy; it’s evidence-based and deeply human.”
“In the middle of absolute mayhem, Phil Lynch gathered his team and said: ‘People first, then customers, then the business.’ That’s compassionate leadership in action.”
“Leaders who create space for sorrow, confusion, and grief help their organizations heal and reconnect much faster.” 
 
 
Key Takeaways: 
 
Compassion is an essential leadership skill, not a soft extra. 
Compassion is often dismissed as “soft,” but it is one of the hardest and most strategic skills to master. It directly impacts engagement, trust, and long-term performance. 
Compassion is both recognition and action. 
It’s not enough to notice someone’s pain. Compassion means seeing the suffering and intentionally acting to alleviate it—in conversations, decisions, and policies. 
Science backs the power of compassion. 
Research highlighted by Dr. James Doty shows compassion is a powerful antidote to loneliness, depression, anxiety, and addiction, all of which show up at work. 
People-first leadership is clearest in crisis. 
During 9/11, Phil Lynch’s mantra—“People first, then customers, then the business”—became a north star for Reuters. Compassion isn’t theoretical; it’s how leaders rank their priorities when it matters most. 
Emotional transparency but safety and trust. 
By being open about what he and his team were feeling, Lynch gave others permission to feel and express their own grief and fear, creating psychological and emotional safety. 
Compassion shapes emotional culture. 
When leaders intentionally make room for grief, questions, and honesty, they shape a culture where people feel seen, heard, and valued—and are proud to belong. 
Love in action is a leadership practice. 
Compassionate leadership is ultimately love expressed through behavior: how you decide, how you listen, how you show up for people when they’re struggling. 
 
Conclusion 
Marcel’s message in this episode is straightforward and challenging: the future of leadership is compassion in action. In a world where mental health struggles and emotional pain are everywhere, leaders can no longer hide behind metrics and control. 
 
The story of Phil Lynch shows that when leaders put people first, especially in the darkest moments, they create cultures of trust, pride, and deep human connection. Compassion is not about being nice for its own sake; it is about being courageously present with suffering and choosing actions that reduce it. 
 
If you want your organization to come alive from the inside out, start with one question: How am I shaping the emotional culture around me—and am I willing to be present when people hurt? That’s where real leadership—and love in action—begins. 
 
Resources: 
Guest Mentioned: 
 
Dr. James Doty – Neurosurgeon and compassion researcher; previously featured on the show (link to that episode will be added to the show notes) 
 
People Referenced: 
 
Jeff Weiner – Former CEO of LinkedIn, advocate for compassion as a core leadership skill 
Phil Lynch – Former president of Reuters America, whose leadership during 9/11 exemplified compassion in crisis 
 
The book: https://www.amazon.com/Humane-Leadership-Lead-Radical-Kick-Ass-ebook/dp/B0CWG3PTL4/  
Substack: https://marcelschwantes.substack.com/  
LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/marcelschwantes/    
X: https://x.com/MarcelSchwantes  
YouTube: https://youtube.com/@MarcelSchwantes1  
Instagram: https://instagram.com/marcel.schwantes/  
Dr. James Doty Episode: https://www.marcelschwantes.com/dr-james-doty-the-neuroscience-of-manifestation/  

Episode recap 
 
This episode focused on hope in the workplace, starting with a discussion with Dr. Alex Lovell, head researcher and vice president at the O.C. Tanner Institute, and covering a recent O.C. Tanner study that revealed a decline in employee hopefulness. Marcel transitioned to a lively conversation with Jen Fisher, author of Hope Is the Strategy, and one of the world's first chief well-being officers. They explored how leaders can cultivate hope by using language that builds rather than kills hope, emphasizing curiosity, empathy, and transparency. Jen explained that hope requires clear goals, acknowledgment of current reality, and identifying multiple pathways to achieve those goals. They also discussed the limitations of wellness programs alone in improving employee well-being and the need to address cultural and behavioral factors in the workplace. The conversation concluded with Jen encouraging listeners to become "hope dealers" by helping others identify possibilities and support their potential.
 
Bio:
Jen Fisher is a global authority on workplace well-being, the founder and CEO of The Wellbeing Team and the author of Hope Is the Strategy: The Underrated Skill That Transforms Work, Leadership, and Wellbeing. 
 
Dr. Alex Lovell is the Vice President of the O.C. Tanner Institute and a political psychologist focused on the human side of work—specifically, how organizations can better foster appreciation, identity, belonging, and fulfillment to unlock human potential.
 
Quotes: 
Alex Lovell 
Employees are seven times more likely to be engaged when they feel hopeful 
When people don’t see a path forward and don’t believe they can follow that path, there is no way they can get there 
Recognition and belonging are one of the strongest antidotes to hopelessness 
When teams aren’t inclusive, employees are 513 percent more likely to feel burned out 
Our younger workers don’t see a future anywhere, not personally and not professionally 
Jen Fisher 
Hope is not an emotion; it is a cognitive and behavioral process 
Do you want to lead a hopeful organization or a hopeless one? 
People need to believe that your strategy will leave them better off tomorrow than they are today 
Never in the history of telling someone not to worry have they not worried 
Be a hope dealer and help people see possibilities 
 
Takeaways: 
Hope is a measurable leadership skill that requires clear goals, multiple pathways, and agency 
Employees who feel hopeful are significantly more engaged and resilient 
Gen Z workers are struggling to see a personal and professional future, making belonging and recognition essential 
The language leaders use can either build hope or quietly destroy it 
Transparency and telling the whole truth reduce anxiety and strengthen trust 
Wellness programs alone cannot fix broken work design or culture 
Rebuilding hope starts with identifying and taking the next small step 
The future of work must intentionally preserve humanity alongside advancing technology. 
 
Timestamps: 
0:00 — Welcome to the Love and Action Podcast 
0:33 — Topic Introduction: Hope 
2:05 — Introducing Dr. Alex Lovell 
4:06 — AI Helping Us to Find Solutions 
8:20 — Key Findings: Hopelessness at Work 
11:10 — Generational Divide in Hope 
14:10 — Gen Z and the Need to Feel Seen 
18:05 — Inclusion, Belonging, and Recognition 
20:10 — Engagement Link: Hope Drives Performance 
22:05 — Practical Solutions: Connection and Relationships 
23:10 — Practical Solutions: Goals and Small Wins 
24:05 — Where to Find the Report + Resources 
23:30 — Jen’s Story: Burnout, Cancer, Caregiving 
29:42 — Setting Clear Goals 
32:11 — Be the leader Setting Examples 
37:10 — Hope as Strategy: Goals, Pathways, Agency 
40:10 — Hope in Practice: Leadership Communication 
44:07 — Language of Hope: Builders vs Killers 
46:00 — Hope Dealers and Possibility Thinking 
48:13 — Leading with the Whole Truth 
55:15 — Why Wellness Programs Aren’t Enough 
55:15 — Human is the Path Forward in Leading Organizations 
1:00:05 — Final Takeaways & Closing 
 
Conclusion: 
Hope is not wishful thinking, and it is not a soft leadership trait reserved for idealists. It is a disciplined, practical skill that drives engagement, fuels resilience, and restores belief in the future of work. From global research to personal recovery stories, this episode makes one thing clear: when leaders cultivate belonging, speak possibility, and tell the whole truth, people perform differently. In a time when burnout is rising and uncertainty is constant, hope becomes the competitive advantage. The leaders who choose to become hope dealers will not only transform their teams, but they will also shape the future of work itself. 
 
Links/Resources: 
Dr. Alexander Lovell: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexanderlovell/  
OC Tanner Global Culture Report: https://www.octanner.com/global-culture-report  
Jen Fisher website: www.jen-fisher.com  
Jen Fisher on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/jen-fisher-cwbo/
WorkWell Podcast with Jen Fisher: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-workwell-podcast/id1381561571 
O.C. Tanner website: https://www.octanner.com/  
O.C. Tanner Global Culture Report: https://www.octanner.com/global-culture-report    
Inc. Article Summary: https://www.inc.com/marcel-schwantes/human-resources-hopelessness-epidemic-work-leadership/91246729   
Episode #112 with Jen Fisher: https://www.marcelschwantes.com/jen-fisher/   
Jen Fisher’s Book “Hope Is the Strategy: The Underrated Skill That Transforms Work, Leadership, and Well-Being”: https://a.co/d/0glJUsxN  
Substack: https://marcelschwantes.substack.com/      
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcelschwantes/  
Twitter/X: https://x.com/MarcelSchwantes  
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9fO2r_ZQ3wy5ie522f-DTQ  
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marcel.schwantes/ 

Episode recap
 
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In this episode, Marcel interviewed Frank Danna and Chris Pitre, co-authors of "Love as a Change Strategy," discussing their book's themes and their experience at Softway, a technology company that transformed from a toxic culture to a human-centered organization. The conversation explored how embracing discomfort, prioritizing relationships, and practicing empathetic curiosity can lead to successful organizational change. Frank and Chris shared personal stories about their own transformation journeys and how they apply these principles at Softway. They discussed the importance of leaders modeling change behavior and the role of AI in enhancing human connection at work. The authors emphasized that change should be led, not managed, and highlighted the need for leaders to be intentional with their words and actions.
 
 
Guest Bio
 
Chris Pitre is Vice President at both Culture+ and Softway. Chris has spent his career helping companies reimagine how they work, focusing on how they treat their people and communicate.
 
Frank Danna serves as the Marketing Director at Softway and is the Co-Founder of Culture+, where he helps leaders transform their leadership through love, empathy, and behavior-based change.
 
 
Quotes: 
Chris Pitre: “Without a positive or strong culture, it's actually harder to bounce back. Adversity becomes that much scarier and that much more formidable.” 
Chris Pitre: “If you are a leader who is about to implement change and you're not uncomfortable, that should be a scary thing.” 
Frank Danna: “If you want to change, discomfort is the solution.” 
Chris Pitre: “I truly believe that comfort is a privilege and change, and so if you are comfortable, that means that everybody else is paying for your comfort, and likely you are someone who is probably oppressing the team.” 
Chris Pitre: “You get to decide at a certain point in your career who you will become: are you the boss that leaves a mark or a scar?” 
 
 
Takeaways: 
Real, sustainable change fails when it’s treated as a technical process instead of a deeply human, emotional experience. 
The six principles of change—embracing discomfort, prioritizing relationships, practicing empathetic curiosity, wielding your influence, experimenting, and being effective—act as a flexible “middle layer” between rigid processes and long-term behavior change. 
Leaders themselves are often the biggest blockers of transformation when they cling to titles, certainty, and comfort while expecting others to do the hard changing. 
Resistance to change is frequently a signal that people feel unheard, and genuine empathetic curiosity can turn resistors into powerful champions. 
AI, when introduced from a humane, people-first lens, can remove transactional work and actually create more room for empathy, collaboration, and truly human leadership. 
 
 
Timestamps: 
00:00:02 Introduction and Softway’s turnaround story 
00:03:30 Welcoming guests Frank Danna and Christopher Pitre 
00:03:55 Frank’s story: from imposter syndrome to belonging 
00:05:26 Chris’s story: corporate “robot,” stroke, and the power of workplace community 
00:11:36 What Softway does and its evolution to AI-focused transformation 
00:15:02 What people get wrong about love as a change strategy and why change fails 
00:21:53 The six principles of change 
00:24:00 Embracing discomfort and why leaders must feel uneasy 
00:27:12 How leaders become the blockers of change 
00:31:06 Personal transformation, accountability, and resistance as unheard voices 
00:36:21 Rabbit hole: traditional male leadership, narcissism, and the cost to culture 
00:40:13 Can AI actually increase humanity and love in the workplace? 
00:43:35 Have we missed any essential questions? 
00:44:55 Practical ways to lead with love day in and day out 
00:47:39 Final takeaways: be like the buffalo and don’t manage change—lead it 
00:50:15 Teasing the third book in the series 
00:51:08 Where to learn more about Softway, the books, and the podcast  
 
 
Conclusion: 
Love isn’t a soft extra in business—it’s the toughest, most practical strategy for real change. This episode shows how embracing discomfort, listening with empathy, and leading like a “buffalo” through the storm can turn a toxic culture into a place of belonging and growth. Frank and Chris prove that when leaders go first, drop their ego, and put people at the center, both performance and humanity rise. AI, handled with a humane-first mindset, becomes a catalyst—not a threat—for more meaningful, human work. Take what you’ve heard today and decide: will you manage change from a distance, or step in and lead it with love? 
 
 
Links/Resources: 
Softway: https://www.softway.com/  
Culture+: https://www.culture-plus.com/  
Love as a Strategy: https://www.loveasastrategy.com/  
Softway LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/teamsoftway/  
Culture+ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/culture_plus/  
Love as a Change Strategy: https://loveasachangestrategy.com/  
Love as a Business Strategy: https://www.loveasabusinessstrategy.com/  
Frank Danna on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/frankDanna/  
Chris Pitre on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrispitre/  
Episode 183 with the CEO of Softway, Mohammad Anwar: https://www.marcelschwantes.com/mohammad-anwar-love-as-a-business-strategy-ep-183/  
Substack: https://marcelschwantes.substack.com/      
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcelschwantes/  
Twitter/X: https://x.com/MarcelSchwantes  
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9fO2r_ZQ3wy5ie522f-DTQ  
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marcel.schwantes/